World of Warcraft, 27.01.2017

On Taking A Raid-ID Hostage

Drama peaked high today, as top guild Serenity was not able to enter their raid for a significant time. We’ve talked to the guy who blocked them out.

Disclaimer

We are aware of the fact, that this is a highly controversial article. It only will show specific aspects of the story and of course our interview-partner tried to get some things clear in his favor.

Raider’s Tavern is highly interested in a fair and sporty competition and that’s why we once again want to point out, that we are not for or against a certain guild. Serenity clearly is the victim in this specific thing, but we have pointed out their massive account sharing and our sadness about that already yesterday. On the other hand, it looks like at least one officer of Method knew about the situation for several hours and did not reach out to Serenity. Jump to the last section, if you would like to know why we deeply root for a professional and fair race.

That being said, we have DO KNOW our interview-partners identity and feel comfortable enough to share.

A Recap: Serenity Not Able to Raid For Hours

Just a quick recap on what happened today: Serenity wanted to start raiding around 13:00 CEST. Once they’ve picked up their ID from the night before and wanted to enter The Nighthold, they got ported out again within 60 seconds. Broken IDs are nothing uncommon during the first weeks of a new raid but two hours later they actually found out, what was causing the problems:

A character called Isabellab was already inside the raid, literally taking their ID hostage. It took several hours until the character was removed from the instance and Serenity could start raiding again.

Leaked screenshot from method-slack.

This all caused a lot of drama on Twitter, especially as a screenshot from a Method internal slack-channel was leaked and confirmed real. It creates the impression, chrispotter (an officer of Method) knew about the whole situation for at least two hours before Serenity found out whats blocking them from raiding.


So are you Isabellab, the guy who blocked Serenity from raiding this morning? How are you related to Method and Serenity? A former member / raider?

I was never a member of Serenity or Method no. But I have a past in top-end raiding guilds like them. This is where I know a lot of the raiders from.

Some people are suspecting you to be the person behind @NH_Guldan on Twitter, some are thinking you did organize the sellruns for Serenity, is that right? Are you Jadelol?

No. Even though Jadelol did do the sellruns, he is a different person. He did not have access to the character Isabellab at any time. He simply got accused because that screenshot from slack was leaked.

The guy behind @NH_Guldan and I are different persons as well.

Update Jan, 27th; 11:00 CEST

We can now confirm without a doubt that Jadelol and the player behind Isabellab are two different persons. We do know the actual identity of the person behind Isabellab but agreed on not sharing it publicly.

How did you manage to block Serenity from raiding?

It already began yesterday. The now banned Paladin was already on Twisting Nether, just with another name. When Method had issues on Tarren Mill, we talked about ways to slow down Serenity and did a name change.

This morning the whole thing was really simple and took no effort at all. I wrote to only one guy in Serenity, before the raids began, around 9:30 CET. Asking if he was interested in some extra flasks for progress, just trying to be nice and friendly to avoid it being too random.

The person was happy to take my flasks, but what he didn’t know was I was waiting outside of Nighthold. As soon as he accepted the group invite, I made it into a raid, gave him leader and ran into the raid. I told him I forgot the flasks was on a another char, told him to wait in Dalaran so I could relog. I disbanded the group and well, I didn’t relog obviously.

At first I wasn’t sure if I could lockout just one person by being in or the whole raid, turns out it was EVERYONE. I don’t recall the time, but at some point after someone came running on a mount up next to while I was inside. After awhile they got a GM to port me to Org, he didn’t contact me or give me any kind of warning. I was just removed from the raid and placed in Org.

The account is banned for 24 hours now, but I believe it still has the ID. Even if I do not plan to do so, maybe this could be done again on the weekend.

So the big question is: Why did you do that?

I didn’t find it fair people what were doing what they did to Method/Tarren Mill yesterday. This, what happen today did even out the race, the downtime Serenity had was equal to the time lost for Method. And it turned out pretty much to be on point, Serenity was able to raid about 5 min before Method got 7/10.

So you suspect the problems Method had yesterday were caused by other players and not simply a server problem? A targeted action against Method?

It was 100% players. I can’t give you any more info about that part sadly, but the best guess is the flowers crashing the instance server. This issue yesterday was ONLY on Tarren Mill and Dentarg (Realm connected to Tarren Mill). And who was behind that, I don’t know. I don’t think it’s directly Serenity, but more the fan base of Serenity.

But Exorsus for example surely got some benefit from that as well!
I can’t really speak for the Russians in this case. I speak with Exorsus sometimes during progress, but I’ve never had the feeling they were involved in anything outside of exploiting inside of the raid, like Helya. But sure, they were the real winners in all this mess, together with Limit and somewhat From Scratch I guess.

So who was aware of the fact that the raid was blocked actively? When did they knew it?

Leaked screenshot from slack.

Well i obviously told Jadelol about it and shared that screenshot. The leaked slack screenshot is real, so in theory all of Method was aware since it was posted to them. But if they were aware of the scale? I don’t think so. But that being said, the picture come from SOMEWHERE, it has to and it was indeed another Method member. And this person didn’t share this picture until the problem was solved.

Were you aware of the fact that your actions caused damage to Method’s image and legitimacy as a top guild?
No, the only reason this hurts Method is the reason that ONE picture got out with Jadelolz name in. Which is why he is taking the trash on social media now as well.


Can we please all grow up now?

Although Isabellab told us his reasons to do such a thing, we simply do not understand. We do not understand why people break Tarren Mill on purpose or DDoS warcraftlogs either. And at least the question remains, why chrispotter did not try to reach out to Serenity once he got knowledge of the things happening.

We are so super serious about raiding but not professional. We blame Blizzard for ruining our game and lives with Legendaries, titanforged and Artifact Power. They suck for sure, yes! We argue about an unfair race even before it starts. True! But the biggest damage to our scene is caused by people that try to be Batman, try bringing justice to the race on their own behalf. And people shit-talking on stream and twitter without talking to each other.

Fandom and passion is important, but just hurts if misdirected. If we want to attract sponsors and even fresh players to the hardcore PvE scene, we do need to grow up. We do need to get as professional as we are passionate. We do have the power to create a fair and enjoyable race within this community and there are ways to monetize.

It is now time to grow up or the hardcore PvE scene will die to DDoS, Swatting and salty, toxic people that can’t enjoy the game anymore.


Update Jan, 27th; 22:50 CET: Edited some typos and two phrases that created the impression I would favor Method, trying to discredit Serenity.

  • Tara

    1. Twisting Nether was lagging too, not just Tarren Mill; Serenity lost time from that.
    2. It’s pretty much impossible to DDoS a single server, or a single server’s instance server, unless you had some pretty advanced stuff going on. Even if it were easily done, where’s this genius’ proof that they were being DDoS’d in the first place? Blizzard tells players when they are experiencing significant (that is, gameplay-affecting) lag due to an attack. Other ways of bringing down a server, such as creating 1000s of level 1s, would have been noticed very quickly.
    3. Jadelol admitted to at least being a part of it in a conversation with Darrie, screenshots of that are on reddit and elsewhere.

    I get that you guys are trying to uncover the facts or whatever, but even with a disclaimer, this comes across as defending their actions because you failed to mention any of the above points, and you throw shade on Serenity by bringing up account sharing (which, as you yourselves stated, is widely used among top guilds, presumably including Method, as is run selling).

    Plus, is this person actually threatening to block them out again? ‘Cause it sure sounds that way.

    • I do agree that it is very unlikely that one or even a group of players managed to disturb Tarren Mill in such a huge way as Sco’s video from the Krosus fight shows.

      Jadelol is not completely innocent, I agree on that. He knew early on and did not tell anything – but so did chrispotter. Maybe I should get that clear, that I did not want to help jadelol in any ways by creating the impression he would be innocent.

      Finally: Account Sharing sucks in my opinion and when I get information I will report it. But totally clear that this is used among a lot of top guilds. This particular case from Serenity was just so obvious that I wanted to report it specifically.

      • Tara

        On the account sharing note, personally don’t have an opinion on it either way, I was just bringing it up because for the purpose of this article it was completely irrelevant. It uniquely casts Serenity in a bad light right off the bat.

        I don’t take issue with your English, good on you for learning and getting this out there. My only complaint really is that the article itself is framed as objective, and maybe you tried to accomplish that, but it definitely reads as an attempt to justify what people affiliated with Method did.

    • Felblade Noz

      When you are saying that

    • Felblade Noz

      When you are talking about lagging.. Does that mean that the server crashed back to back like 10 times within like 3 hours?

      • Tara

        I don’t know the extent or severity of the server issues, just that whatever was happening wasn’t unique to TM

        • Noctus

          Playing on Tarren-Mill myself, i do think the intensity of the server issues were unique to TM (at that evening i didnt see complaints from other servers fully crashing). Every 10 minutes or so the server stopped. chat kept working and you still could move around freely. The only solution was alt-f4 as logging out was also impossible.
          The cause remains unknown, it didnt feel like a ddos as things didnt slow down, but just suddenly stopped (I remember the day Ensidia moved to TM and our server was attacked and unplayable in the evening for 28 days in a row).
          You also instantly knew when the server was crashing last Thursday as the GMotD suddenly popped up and all notifications of members coming online.

  • Revokes

    i love how you guys put 100% wasnt Jadelol just because this guys said so, RP from method posted a conversation another method had with him asking why and he said the reason behind it all tho it prob wasnt using that character he was a culprit https://gyazo.com/bdb772e6936069b3be5f8388a54c6ad6

    • Thank’s for your comment. I did know the linked chat you post there before the interview and even tho I do believe Isabellab was not played by Jadelol, I feel like he definately played a bigger role. My interview partner confirmed, that they talked about ways to block out Serenity on the night before. Jadelol did knew about it for a long period and obviously was at least a bit happy about it as he has some real beef with Serenity.

      At this point we do not completely know the truth and maybe will never know. At the end of the day I may only have told another version of the story but a larger and extensive one.

  • gogoadgetkat

    First off, if you’re going to attempt to be an English news source for high-end raiding, the least you could do is know how to write in English. This article is poorly written and at times is incredibly difficult to understand.

    Second, if you’re wanting to be a legitimate news source, how about being objective? I don’t have a horse in this race and it’s just a source of mild interest for me, but I actually feel for Serenity in this situation. It’s very clear to me that you have a bone to pick specifically with Serenity, as you’ve called them out for account sharing while neglecting to mention that account sharing has been a staple of the progression race for many, many other top guilds throughout the years. You mention Serenity’s account sharing again today in this article, as if suggesting that Serenity can’t really be victims because they’re such bad guys. This clear bias, coupled with the obviously terrible writing, doesn’t help you here in trying to establish a following.

    Third, I think it’s very telling that an awkward, poorly written, basically unknown website with an obvious bias against Serenity is suddenly very popular, being retweeted by members of Method, shared on reddit, and getting “exclusive” interviews with the “anonymous” person who sabotaged Serenity yesterday. It’s so very convenient that suddenly Method’s reputation can be saved because Jadelolz wasn’t actually involved, it was a random person that you can personally confirm…but we have to take your word for it. Who are you, exactly? I know you are attempting to be a legitimate news source for progression raiding. I know you are biased against Serenity as you’ve made that abundantly clear. Why are you trustworthy? You can barely write an article. Why should your readers trust any of this? To me this whole interview seems just a little too convenient to be believable.

    Ultimately this article hasn’t convinced me of anything except that this website should not be regarded as a true source for progression raiding news. I’ll stick with Wowprogress. You’re either in with Method here trying to clear their brand name, or you’re getting played alongside everyone else. Either way, this article reads as if you’re condoning these actions and I’m not down with that. Why is account sharing so terrible in your eyes, yet the purposeful sabotage of Serenity’s raiding time yesterday is justified?

    • Thank you very much for your feedback, I am happy you are reading my small site 😉

      Let me answer some of your points, first off: English.
      As you have noticed me and my interview-partner both are not native speakers. I do always try to improve and in this particular case I did leave large parts of the answers untouched. This probably was a failure.

      Second: I try to be objective but probably will fail within single articles. I did cover Exorsus’ Account Sharing as well as Method taking a top geared healer right at the start of progression. I did do interviews with other top guilds in the past, giving them a platform to talk, just check my coverage on gamescom 2016 with From Scratch and set sail for fail for example. Plus: I did an interview with deepshades and gamko after their World Record on a +21 Mythic Keystone run, giving Serenity some exposure just a few weeks ago.

      And ultimately: isn’t it objective calling Serenity victims and “villain” in the same article? For me it is.

      I am really sorry if it creates the impression I am biased with Serenity or a fanboy of method. I do know people in both guilds and do not want to hurt anyone of them in particular. If you want to know more about me, there is an “about” page linked at the bottom of this site. I am a longtime raider with little hardcore experience just passionate about PvE as everyone else here.

      Finally: I’ve started this site only 8 Months ago and got a slow but steady growth since then. Of course this may be the biggest “story” so far, but especially my interviews were re-tweeted from top raiders already in the past. I have gained ~25 followers in the past 48 hours. That’s nice but not ground shaking, I just feel like a complete different kind of people are now coming to my site. Well, welcome 😉

      One last thing: I did create this site as manaflask died and usually covered the race more extensively than wowprogress does. At this point I did not know that Starym moved on to Method where I do enjoy his coverage as well!

      • DcARR

        That person was being a whiny cunt, The articles english was fine for not being native language

    • amiShael

      First off: if you are going to attempt to write a reliable feedback use your regular user ID.

      • gogoadgetkat

        This is my only user ID. I’ve never used Disqus before but you could probably Google this username and find that I use it on many sites. Thanks for the feedback though!

  • Nag

    Can’t say I had much respect left for Method after it looked like they sold out leading to the Serenity split – but any respect I did have left has completely gone out the window after this.

    Disgusting. Even if they didn’t set this up, it’s idiotic not to have done something once they knew what was going on, WHOEVER wins the race now has the results tarnished by this, whether it be Method or Exorsus.
    It’s one thing to be exploiting things internally or account sharing, as much as I dislike it, but straight up fucking with another guild is well over the line.

    • Hollyweed

      Not going to win something because you are the only one who has issues or a handicap is not that fair aswell. It’s hard to find the balance of justice in this case. But no doubt, I would agree with your opinion in any other situation. 🙂

  • Alan Lanson

    Yes this article isn’t biased at all and the convenience of the “person responsible” suddenly stepping up to claim Method had nothing to do with it is completely a coincidence.

    This article is biased from the start. Yeah we’ll just take some “random persons” word for it that the server issues were intentionally caused to slow Method and print it as if it holds ANY weight.

    This whole article is complete bullshit.

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